I am pleased to tell you that no, I am not writing Young Adult fiction. Ivan Throne is a very real person, and, according to him, The Dark World is a real place- and we all live in it.
He is the bestselling author of THE NINE LAWS. Speaker, business manager and seasoned veteran of the financial industry, he's also a deaf ninja. literally, he can't hear anything but can make you eat your own legs with one hand.
Badass. He has been gracious enough to answer some questions for us in this, the second installment of The Standard Conversation. We talked about the meaning of manhood, Islam, cataclysmic war and tiny Ben Shapiro. Read on for an illuminating glimpse into the Dark World.
RS: Ivan, tell me about the Dark World. I'm sitting here on my balcony overlooking some nice views, and life is pretty sweet for me. What's so dark about the world?
It ends, doesn’t it? And so will you.
You’re a finite consciousness, in a finite creation, and both of those things are integrally designed to sputter out and cease. Lots of people think I mean “dark” as in “bad” or “horrible” or “cruel”. The world certainly can be those things, and often is.
But the real lesson there - in the fact of not only your own death but that of the universe itself – is this:
Brother, this is not a dress rehearsal. There are no do-overs. And the inexorable slide of things is towards entropic heat death. The other critical aspect of this creation, this existence, is that the universe does not care.
That is a terribly hard thing for most people to understand, let alone accept. The universe doesn’t care whether you’re having a good day, a bad day, a great life, or a short and brutal one. The universe does not perceive you; it doesn’t hear you scream.
It just keeps on spinning and dying.
Once your mind, and more importantly your heart, grasp and accept this truth – then action is freed up and the man abandons pity towards himself and transits through life unblinded.
That is where the immense work of Men is truly done.
Image: VixSwift Photography
RS: You're quite active in this growing scene of positive masculinity with guys like Hunter Drew of The Family Alpha and others. Why do you think there has been this growth in 'positive alpha-male' philosophy?
The accelerating return of masculinity to the West is a severe and fearsome process. It is severe for many reasons. It is severe because it is unapologetic, and as a movement, it rejects any infection of weakness or groveling supplication. We are men. We are not castrati. We did not ask for permission to build Greece and Rome or the empires of the West.
Nor do we ask for permission to restore men to their inherent, rightful place in the pantheon of human power. It’s our nature, and all pendulums swing. Men like Hunter, myself and many others are pushing hard and driving deeper momentum into that swing, making sure it takes deep and abiding root in our own generation and the next.
There are powerful signs of success, deeper than we had imagined. Generation Z is avowedly militaristic, utterly contemptuous of weak and feminized society, and openly seeks the strong hand of a Generation X that knows the time has come to teach the methods and truths that we have incubated for forty years as the West slid into degeneracy.
This return of authentic masculinity is also a lagging and leading indicator.
It is a lagging indicator of a foundational shift, rejection of cultural suicide, and decision by men to simply stop caring what those who want to destroy them may think or speak of them. This is profoundly important.
If hostile Islamists overtly declare they will kill me, take my women, and indoctrinate my children to hate me – what do I care for their insults when their very spears of war are aimed at the heart of my nation?
If hostile Marxists with a history of dumping scores of millions of naked, emaciated and gunshot bodies into pools of black blood and spattered fat at the bottom of killing pits, want to call me toxic – what do I care for their words, when their actions are where my arms and brothers must contend?
Thus the process is fearsome:
The return of authentic, powerful, unapologetic masculinity is a leading indicator of war.
Be very glad that Donald Trump is at the helm of the American nation as the age grows quickly hot.
RS: Ha! You're right on the money there. I can only imagine how monumentally screwed we would be with Clinton in power. I read from your site that you "don't care" about the Jewish Question -rightly so in my view. This being the case, why does Ben Shapiro call you a White Supremacist?
Ben’s a darling muppet, isn’t he? The short takes and his inability to reach the truth on the top shelf are quite fun. Two things actually came to light immediately afterward. The first was the sheer number of people he calls a “white supremacist”, many of them bizarrely so. I had no idea. It seems to be a de rigueur fallback position of his, which I discovered with some amusement. I’m not a listener or reader of his, so I hadn’t been paying attention to what he thinks or doesn’t think of people.
The other was his timing. Vox Day had just released another philosophy bestseller, “SJWs Always Double Down” in which our darling Ben was eviscerated in rather blunt terms. I wrote the foreword to the book, and I was told by some industry insiders that Ben thought it would be safer to tangentially target someone, anyone, other than Vox Day.
Well, we all make errors, and Ben is no exception. No doubt we’ll meet someday and chat intensely about it.
RS: You know, I think if Ben could approach the talk in good faith without trying to pull rhetorical tricks that would be a fascinating debate.
In THE NINE LAWS you talk about utilizing our innate psychopathy, narcissism, and Machiavellianism to achieve goals. These are not considered by most to be desirable traits- though the book also contains lines such as;
"Do not fail to believe in possibilities.
Do not fail to believe in yourself.
It is how odds are ferociously defied.
Even preposterous dreams can be made real, my brother.
I am the living proof."
By any measure, this is a message of positive self-determination. What inspired this usage of the 'Dark Triad' to produce positive effects in men?
Men must play the cards they are dealt with. That means seeing clearly, understanding correctly, and acting decisively.
Thought, word, and deed are the foundations of the human being. Thought becomes vision. Words become plans. Deeds become competent. The dark triad of personality takes those a great step further, focuses those inherent human processes into sharper relief.
Vision becomes narcissism, faith, and belief in a future that you will personally shape into existence. Plans become Machiavellianism, the ability to shade and tumble and turn the world until it coalesces into actuality. Competence becomes psychopathy, where the ego dissolves and a man deploys raw, unfiltered, and unblinking execution of power in the world.
Where these things collide at a single point, you have what I call the detonation of fate: the human being bringing every capacity and venue to bear into the moment of realization, the determination of what will be.
This is a conscious and deliberate application of natural human traits, taken a radical step further, and each trait put into service of the others. It’s far more common than people realize.
Most simply never do it consciously and deliberately.
Any project manager worth his pay understands Machiavellianism. To realize enterprise vision with competent execution he must entangle and entwine men and resources, time and effort. He cannot hire and fire; he has total accountability but no authority. Thus, subtle alliances and relationships are how his success or failures pivot along the way.
Any world champion understands narcissism. He must focus his entire mind, heart, and body into the single-minded pursuit of a glittering and glorious vision with a ferocity that few can comprehend, let alone emulate. Not one champion ever lived who did not believe in himself, and I tell you that the vision of the champion seems deluded and extreme to the common man.
Any military leader grasps the necessity of psychopathy in determining objectives, issuing orders, and the planning of destruction and death. He coldly and pitilessly achieves political results on the battlefield. He will throw men like “clumps of earth” and accept the loss and suffering of the troops as an inherent part of that icy delivery of fate.
Like any power, capacity or tool, the dark triad traits can be turned in malevolent direction. A sword cares not who it cuts, after all. And men are fallen animals. Disordered, dysregulated traits are what happens when men do not adhere to discipline.
It is a dark world. Possession of extreme capacity has nothing whatsoever to do with moral elevation or spiritual advancement. That is not how the dark world works. As human beings, we have choices to make in the service of our sacred purpose, and those choices – why we envision the future, how we plan it, and where we execute on it – shapes what men later call history.
Weakness is not moral. Abdication of power is not spiritual advancement. To use pity as a strategy is obscene for the human being, who is formed in the image of God and bears the sacrosanct responsibility of serving as a vehicle for the will of Heaven.
The truth of the dark world is this: no one is coming to save you. You are personally responsible for your survival, and that of your culture and civilization.
Do not grovel and whine, seeking mercy from a universe that does not hear.
Stand as a man, build to the best of your capacity, and defend it and your loved ones with all the ferocity you possess.
Image: VixSwift Photography
RS: The Western world is under grave threat from migration- more people are on the move today than at any time in history. Pew Research indicates that Europe could be as much as 20% Muslim by the middle of the Century, with nations like France, Sweden and my own United Kingdom with far higher populations. This is, without doubt, an undesirable outcome for Europeans. Is there hope for the West?
There is hope for the West if it accepts the reality of war.
There is hope for the West if the men who inherited it, return to their true and inherent nature as warriors and priests.
There is hope for the West if leaders stand forth with the vision, plans, and competence that are so bitterly demanded.
But there are no guarantees.
Fate tumbles and turns in the dark world, and there is no question that the times are dangerous, full of shocks and fear.
Sweden is a degenerate, obsequious pit of unforgivable cuckery and the descent of that nation into insane, multicultural suicide will require serious blood and killing to return it to the fold of the West.
France may yet detach itself from that same trajectory, although again much blood will be required. The spirit of France has not yet been thrown down and murdered, but France will need other nations to lead it.
The United Kingdom is not finished. The long, stable rule of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth will soon pass away, and the tumult and resulting chaos of subsequent sovereigns will eventually settle. It will fall upon her loyal subjects to ensure that the Crown is preserved, for it is through the Crown that the spirit and ferocity of the United Kingdom has its best chance for survival and restoration during the existential wars that come.
RS: Do you have any specific ideas on how that scenario could be achieved? If existential war is inevitable, how does the West win it?
From the ground up, through the hearts of men of the West who see clearly, understand fully, and take direct action for the preservation of their lives, their families, their communities and countries, and culture.
The dark world does not do pity, but it does reward the bold and the decisive, for that is also the way of this dying creation.
The roaring return of authentic masculinity is not merely an indicator or pendulum but also a prerequisite for victory in an existential clash of civilizations.
I intend for us to win it, and I call brother the men who rise and march with me.
Be a bloody Man and fight for what is yours!
Live with sacred purpose and utter savage ferocity!
Anything less and your culture is going to die, and all your lineage with it.
RS:No time to mess around with video games then. While you don't appear to be a particularly political guy (beyond the support for Donald Trump) people seem quite keen to call you a Nazi or Alt-Right or whatever. I also know you like taunting leftists online- is that just for fun? Doesn't that make you a 'status-quo warrior'?
I’ve been called every epithet across the entire political spectrum. Marxists call me a Nazi, want me banned and my readers imprisoned. Nazis call me a race-traitor, want me beaten and gassed. It’s really quite delightful. And it is useful to see how antifragility works, which is part and parcel of dealing with haters and trolls both online and in real life.
Think about where your vulnerabilities are, and turn them into pits of overthrow for your adversary. Consider what your strengths are, and how your vulnerable brothers can benefit from their application.
There is very little difference between a general sustaining the morale of his army through declarations of spirit before the arrayed ranks of his troops, and a social media influencer proving antifragility for his followers against the emotional, writhing attacks of idiotic adversaries. It is simply a new age and a new medium, but the message is the same:
“We will have victory, and you will not. And we’re coming for you.”
Anything less than that is a disservice to the army, and a failure by the general to lead spiritual command in war.
RS: Who is your hero?
My late father, who by his example showed me how to think, how to live, and what mattered. It is in homage and fealty to him, and to the legacy of the culture, I am descended from, that I do the work I do.
RS: You have a piece of art/t-shirt on your website that depicts ISIS terrorists in front of the Eiffel Tower skewered on stakes in true Vlad the Impaler style. The tagline is Impalement Stops Invasion. Obviously, you don't care about people taking offense at your ideas- but what inspired this? Do you really think this should or could be done?
The Impalement Stops Invasion shirts grew out of some discussions I had with people about Islamic terror, and moreover how terror works. Terror is designed to freeze you, to cause fixation of the mind and heart, and prevent decisive action.
Islam has nearly redefined terror in the modern age, and they are absolutely hell-bent on it. People do not grasp that beheading videos are merely the tip of the iceberg. The dead in the Bataclan in Paris were disemboweled, castrated, their eyes gouged out. They were forced to crawl screaming over their own entrails before being finally butchered. Young girls at the school siege of Beslan in Russia were viciously gang-raped and sodomized to death with rifle barrels, and similarly, Islam has cruel intentions for the other nations of the West. Floor plans of America middle schools were found in Iraq, and the reasoning was quite simple: the girls are big enough to rape, and the boys are too small to fight back.
What stops terror?
I will tell you what stops terror, here in the dark world:
It is not a question of whether ruthless and public impalement of jihadists could be done. Of course, it can; there is no insurmountable logistical or mechanical reality that prevents the physical hoisting of Islamic invaders on fatal stakes at the national borders of Europe.
Nor do I declare whether it should be done. That is a question for politicians, for State officials, and ultimately for the men who protect the women and children of the West. And it is, at the last resort, the decision of those men whether their politicians and State officials have failed in their duty to preserve, protect, and defend them.
The design does speak and communicate an absolutely uncontestable truth: if it were done, the jihadist invasion would stop.
Would you dare cross a border, where those who came before you were a grim and incontestable warning against your entry?
Would you dare to rape and behead a Western schoolgirl, if you knew a wooden stake would be driven into your anus and out your screaming mouth before your agonized carcass was hoisted to the sky?
Do Western cartoonists dare to draw Mohammed?
Jihadists dare to explode and butcher and rape and machine-gun and roar down our streets with trucks in bloody massacres.
I will simply say that all pendulums swing, and where Governments fail to protect Men… Men form new Governments.
It’s a dark world. It was dark before I got here, brother. It will be dark long after I am gone. A sword cares not who it cuts, and terror is a dreadful sword in any hand.
The shirt’s a great and impressive design by a very talented artist. And hope and pity aren’t strategies.
Vlad would say I’m right.
RS: I think he probably would. OK, tough question time. What does it mean to be a man?
That’s really the critical question the West faces, isn’t it?
What does it mean to be a Man?
What does it mean to be a Man when failure means the death of a thousand years of heritage? What does it mean to be a Man who fights against the degenerate slaughter of his very identity?
The answer is the same one it always has been: the grave and linear process of manhood, war, and salvation.
Manhood is derived from the foundational layer of conscience, from the voice of God that works through the heart and informs the mind, and thence forms the decisions by which deeds are birthed. Manhood is conscience married to discipline, to the strength and habits of achievement and building and creating in this dark world those things that survive and outlast us.
Family, honor, country, culture, civilization. Great works of art, of construction, of ideas, of civilization itself and of the prerogative to detonate fate according to sacred purpose!
Men are designed for war. The very shape of Men is formed to serve our male burden of performance. That performance, that sacrifice, that ongoing painful and agonizing struggle, is an integral part and parcel of being a man.
It is difficult, and challenging, and often bitterly and continuously unappreciated.
Where is there rest from this?
The answer lies in the respite of performance, in the total and unrelenting savage ferocity that accompanies adherence to sacred purpose.
When you have given your work everything you have, with nothing held back, and you have burned your ships on the shore and thrown away the scabbard of your sword and walked into battle with nothing held back…
…life and death are both release in the aftermath.
Therein is the rest, albeit momentary, of the male burden of performance.
Then it begins again, and men return to the work that is their nature.
Sacred purpose, in the life of the individual man, is where all the infinite strength of honor and dignity and power arise.
How does one identify one’s sacred purpose, and lay bare the road of the Way that brings both immortal glory and the peace of life and death? What is the process by which one identifies and adheres to the discipline of the divine conscience?
That is, precisely, what I and my partner teach in the Immersion Forge.
Image: VixSwift Photography
Sacred purpose, savage ferocity, and adherence to the divine path of fulfilled conscience.
The first Immersion Forge in January at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas was sold out. The response has been incredible; testimony from the men who attended has been remarkable and explosively strong.
We spent a year creating the curriculum, refining it, testing it, and shaping the structure of delivery.
The results were phenomenal.
The next Immersion Forge is in New York in the Park View Suite of Trump International Hotel and Tower on February 24th.
There are eight seats left, but they go quickly.
We have tapped into what Men need in this dreadful age, and we build a brotherhood of sacred purpose and momentum.
There is a Way that can be learned, and the process of connecting divine conscience, sacred purpose, and total savage ferocity is driven by the esoteric teachings of the ninja and the dread combat experience of my partner Mr. Swift, a ruthless mercenary who has seen and done the unimaginable.
Men teach men, and men learn from men.
That, too, is the Way. And the Way of men is cruelly demanded more now than ever.
Men do not leave their brothers behind, and that is why Mr. Swift and I deliver the Immersion Forge.
Civilizations collide, brother. And collision comes fast.
We mean to win, and with everything we have.
Join us, and march with us as brothers.
RS: Thanks, Ivan!
There you have it folks. Intense ideas spoken plainly. I highly recommend that you follow Ivan Throne on Twitter because he is both hilarious and thought provoking- partcularly when he's trolling weak internet communists into oblivion. If you like the way Ivan's mind works you should buy The Nine Laws: Survival, Momentum, and Triumph and read it. It's a permanent fixture on my work table.
Ivan's philosophy is clearly written and explained, and he gives his ideas room to breathe. You need to put the work into his book not through wrapping your head around overly complex post-modernist sentence structure but in quiet reflection upon yourself. That's the greatness in his writing- it is a collaborative experience with the reader that encourages the discovery of your own anwers while providing the calm hand of a great teacher in guidance.
Coming this Autumn 2018 he releases The Three Gates: Manhood, War, and Salvation through Castalia House, and is the second in his triptych of philosophy books.
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